New Naturalists / General Questions / General questions and discussion / New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists' / Latest Posts

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:45:43 GMT

[quote][b]Collins (26/02/2010)[/b][hr]Hengus I will feed this back to the production team.

Alex
Collins[/quote]

Who presumably (from the near 2 months of silence from 'you' on the issue) shrugged their shoulders, and thought 'so what'?

Just stay quiet and the moaners will disappear and accept shoddy goods? Is that it? At least we know thats what the 'production team' thought, I suppose.....but thanks for telling them, anyway.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

koicarp — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:22:20 GMT

Hi Hengus, because I lost login details, so created another, and can't delete the previous - IT strikes again :-)

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:51:00 GMT

[quote][b]koicarp (03/03/2010)[/b][hr]have two NNN logins, Philip and Koicarp[/quote]

Why? Most public forums ban that practice....

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

koicarp — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:54:43 GMT

have two NNN logins, Philip and Koicarp

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

koicarp — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:54:08 GMT

I'm fine, still buying the books :-) ........

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

michael5 — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:47:40 GMT

Hi Philip..yes i am! sorry havent been in touch recently but sure is nice to hear from you. how are you keeping ?

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Philip — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:37:32 GMT

Haven't been on the new forum before. Impressed with Collins for the first time since......... can't remember. Received Books and Naturalists today and its a very good book. Only criticism is the lost opportunity to widen readership to antiquarian Natural History collecting by decision not to reproduce lots of photos of classic books and images. Instead we have lots on the men, the women, and their portraits. Overall a good stab however at the subject and many old friends (ie old books) a number of which I am lucky enough to have, get a mention.

The Leather edtiion is.......... amazing. Blown away by the DJ signed by Robert Gilmour on inner flap. Really feels worth the money this time, and exciting to hold..........

Micheal5 - are you my friend Michael E----ds ? Best to all Philip B.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:44:53 GMT

[quote][b]Lee3764 (26/02/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Hengus (25/02/2010)[/b][hr]It's the sort of thing I'd be perfectly willing to accept on a 5.99 airport paperback, but I'm afraid not on a £50 (well £46 inc p&p for this one) item like this where condition is a major factor in the appeal of the things....

Are they all like this, then?[/quote]

Dear Hengus,

Try NHBS books in Totnes, Devon,as I paid £38.99 plus £2.99 P & P for each edition, making £41.98 in total which will save you £4.02 on each edition! They also get it to me before anyone else on this forum I think as I seem to have posted 1st on the last two editions.

Cheers,

Lee.[/quote]

Duly signed up in time for NN113's migration North.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

michael5 — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:54:49 GMT

For all my comments..i must say..its an excellent book! and because i like to obtain the signed copy from Collins. it can be a problem if i am out on the day the courier calls. but all said..i really would like to see an improvement in the quality inspection and packaging issues. i am sure that Alex is aware of these issues and will look into it as he has in past concerns. If this site never existed..it would be sorely missed by many of us that get a little irrate and upset at times when things dont go to right, and i hold my hand up that i have been one. but for all issues its still a great site for us collectors and for that lets be greatfull it does exist

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Bill — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:35:29 GMT

[quote][b]Fritillary (26/02/2010)[/b][hr]The faults on 'Books and Naturalist' (although it shouldn't have happened) are so minimal that it hardly matters.[/quote]

I'm going to put my "neck on the block" and fully expect to be admonished by some for my comments, but nevertheless ...

Firstly, I agree with Fritillary - it is a minor blemish on two pages of this book and on one page, is only visible at the lower edge below a colour photograph. It does not detract from what is an excellent book and on my copy, at least, has no impact upon my ability to read the text on the page.

The comments raised by michael5 on the quality of the packaging are, in my opinion, much more important although I accept only concern those that order their copies directly from Harper Collins. This is avoidable, can be corrected and if it isn't, may persuade some to stop sourcing directly from Collins.

Does it really matter that there are dark lines on a couple of pages of this book. Will the general natural history book reader or occasional purchaser of NNs really be that concerned? I doubt it ... and I assume that they buy the majority of copies of any new title.

As collectors of this series we are passionate about the books for a variety of different reasons. We are almost certainly more critical and demanding ... but would any of you really refuse to purchase a second-hand copy of a scarce out-of-print title, just because it was marked in the same way ... especially if you knew that every copy of the title was the same? Do we really deserve special treatment? Are we any more important to Collins than their other customers for this book (or nay other newly published NN title)?

Perhaps we should remember that, for most of us, the largest financial outlay of our purchases is in the second-hand market, which delivers no benefit to Collins at all. For example, I started my collection about the time that #87 Amphibians and Reptiles was published - certainly all subsequent copies have been purchased as new from Amazon, NHBS or Collins so I would guess that I've spent £600-800 on these editions (taking into account discounts from RRP and the lower price of the older editions), less than the prices realised in the recent past for single copies of the rarest titles (#74 to 81). I've spent thousands of pounds (I won't say how much in case my wife reads this!) completing my collection, but only a small proportion of that outlay (most probably less than 5% when you consider that Amazon, NHBS are making a margin) will have been received by Collins.

Of course, we'd all like "fine" copies of every NN ever published sitting on or bookshelves but at the risk of being contentious, is that really motivated by anything more than a judgement of their financial value?

I'm a pragmatist - although undeniably carrying a minor flaw, "Books and Naturalists" is an excellent addition to the NN library and the black lines do not detract from my enjoyment of this title or my larger collection. And should I eventually decide to sell off my collection in later life, I have one additional criteria that I can use to demonstrate the authenticity of my Signed First Edition" copy of this title!

Bill

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

michael5 — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 08:26:48 GMT

Oh I forgot ..thats a nice idea Lee..about a possible discount on the next new nat to compensate the roller lines. personally a paperback " Books and Naturalists" would be an even beter compensation and i can leave my signed hardback unopened and never look at the roller lines ever again! ...guess i havent woke up here yet and still dreaming!!!!!!

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

michael5 — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 08:14:58 GMT

Hi Lee Slaughter and others here . i read your words and agree with much said , but the problem is that its often left to a small minority on here in forum to complain, and as most ( being human nature ) do not wish to complain .. they are left silently dissatisfied with what they recieve for their money. the point is that the few that do complain bear the brunt being labelled as ..moaners, winers...ect. but as collectors the point seems to be missed that we like the books mint as i'm sure is intended. but unless even the basic points ..like delivery and packaging are sorted out..problems will always exist. many of us live 40 miles often from the nearest courier depot, so if we are out its disaster brewing

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

michael5 — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:36:00 GMT

I recieved my signed "Books and Naturalists" today , originaly delivered by courier when i wasnt in..taken back to a depo 40 miles away..took ages to get through to arrange a re-delivery on monday between 9 and 5pm, stayed in all day cancelled arrangments..5pm no book..phoned couriers..given answer was forgotten to pick up in morning..but as delivery guy lived close to me , would be with me by 7.30 pm.. ( my evening arrangments now disrupted ) ..7pm ish book arrives..first look and fears ..inadaquate box by far , carboard to thin, dented in corners...opened box...brown paper around book and three crumpled sheets above the book, nothing below ..book just against the thin box with no packing or support..hmmm opening book, ...yes the roller lines..hmmm. oh well another marvel of quality control ..and how it ever arrived in one piece i am totaly amazed!

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Fritillary — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:54:50 GMT

The faults on 'Books and Naturalist' (although it shouldn't have happened) are so minimal that it hardly matters.

Well, it harld matters to me!

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Lee3764 — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:17:45 GMT

[quote][b]Hengus (25/02/2010)[/b][hr]It's the sort of thing I'd be perfectly willing to accept on a 5.99 airport paperback, but I'm afraid not on a £50 (well £46 inc p&p for this one) item like this where condition is a major factor in the appeal of the things....

Are they all like this, then?[/quote]

Dear Hengus,

Try NHBS books in Totnes, Devon, as I paid £38.99 plus £2.99 P & P for each edition, making £41.98 in total which will save you £4.02 on each edition! They also get it to me before anyone else on this forum I think as I seem to have posted 1st on the last two editions.

Cheers,

Lee.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Lee3764 — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:10:43 GMT

[quote][b]Hengus (26/02/2010)[/b][hr]Here's the reply I got from my supplier:

[i]Unfortunately all copies of Books and Naturalists have these marks. It is a fault with the whole of the first edition. If Collins decide to reprint the book, then it will not be a genuine first impression. You can return the book if you would like to but I cannot replace the book with a copy that does not have these marks.[/i]

Is that actually the case? Does every copy have these marks? If so, that's a pretty poor sign of quality control from Collins then. It appears I'm being forced to accept what is effectively a defective 'second' on the basis that it is original and therefore acceptable. Not impressed I'm afraid....[/quote]

Yep! Mine has this fault too! Who is employed in quality control at Collins? Do I really have to use my son's school rubber to attempt to get rid of most of these 'roller' marks? From someone who has spent in excess of £1500 in the last 2 years building my collection of new Collins N/N editions or mint examples from dealers of recent back no's from the last 15 years' issues (not the really expensive ones), I ask Collins - Would you kindly grant us a discount from the next N/N publication (Bird Migration I think?) that can be used from all main dealers who stock N/N's? This is not what us loyal N/N collectors or enthusiasts expect from a quality book from a world renowned publisher like Collins! This sweetener might just keep us sweet? I don't see why if they are all like this on the 1st edition/1st printing that we have any choice but to keep them, as a reprint to replace all the faulty ones would make the replacements reprints of the 1st edition or at the very least 1st edition 2nd printing if there is such a thing! Perhaps Alex would make a statement on this forum to spell out what Collins will be prepared to do. Well done Hengus in spotting this! Does anyone's book NOT have the roller marks?

Await Collins and anyone else's reply with anticipation,

Lee Slaughter (Cornwall).

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:01 GMT

[quote][b]Collins (26/02/2010)[/b][hr]Hengus I will feed this back to the production team.

Alex
Collins[/quote]

Thank you.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Collins — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:07:02 GMT

Hengus I will feed this back to the production team.

Alex
Collins

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:55:41 GMT

I've just been told by one of the largest specialist suppliers (not mine) that all of their copies are similarly marked.

Personally I think it's a bit of a joke...so what the collector is being told is that it doesn't matter what appalling condition the first printing is in (ok, that's an exaggeration of this error, but the over-stressed point holds, they are still imperfect), you needn't worry as they are all the same and aren't going to be corrected. So the choice is a damaged 1st impression or an undamaged later impression....? It's not like this is a proofing error...it's a basic failure in the printer's and Collins' quality control.

Anyway, it's clear I care far too much about these things, and should just put up or shut up as thats what I'm being told to do. But strangely enough, I oddly felt caring about them was rather the point. Obviously not.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Bill — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:34:27 GMT

[quote][b]Hengus (26/02/2010)[/b][hr]Here's the reply I got from my supplier:

[i]Unfortunately all copies of Books and Naturalists have these marks. It is a fault with the whole of the first edition.[/i]

Is that actually the case? Does every copy have these marks? If so, that's a pretty poor sign of quality control from Collins then.[/quote]

As posted elsewhere my signed First Edition arrived this morning directly from Collins - I hadn't opened it until reading the earlier posts but I've just removed Hengus's "beloved" cellophance wrapper from my copy and it also has these marks on pages 163 and at the lower edge of p131.

I am assuming that Collins would have checked the limited edition copies if they knew of the fault and could have rectified it ... at least, I hope they would given the higher price of these editions.

Alex, any comments? Are all copies of this title similarly faulty?

Bill

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:45:03 GMT

Here's the reply I got from my supplier:

[i]Unfortunately all copies of Books and Naturalists have these marks. It is a fault with the whole of the first edition. If Collins decide to reprint the book, then it will not be a genuine first impression. You can return the book if you would like to but I cannot replace the book with a copy that does not have these marks.[/i]

Is that actually the case? Does every copy have these marks? If so, that's a pretty poor sign of quality control from Collins then. It appears I'm being forced to accept what is effectively a defective 'second' on the basis that it is original and therefore acceptable. Not impressed I'm afraid....

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Fritillary — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:18:18 GMT

I have finally got mine from Amazon (do they buy rejects or seconds?). Mine has the faults as listed previously, just about acceptable. Most people won't know about this fault, because they don't read the books (Ha Ha!).

Thanks to the earlier posting about an alternative supplier.

Meanwhile my attempts to find a nice first edition of The Natural History of Pollination continues and continues..some dealers have them but want too much.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:29:58 GMT

It's the sort of thing I'd be perfectly willing to accept on a 5.99 airport paperback, but I'm afraid not on a £50 (well £46 inc p&p for this one) item like this where condition is a major factor in the appeal of the things....

Are they all like this, then?

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

DavidGarnett — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:49:51 GMT

Yes same on my copy (bought from Amazon): not too bad on p. 131 as only shows on lower blank margin to page (the dark plate above masks it). More of a problem on p. 163 as two parallel lines track down the length of the page. Judicious rubbing with a pencil eraser has cleared most of it (don't rub on the text or illustrations as it will lift some of the the ink producing a lightening effect). Like my wallpapering you can now only see the fault if you know where to look so I won't bother returning my copy to Amazon.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Hengus — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:56:40 GMT

Problems with my copy - on several pages (notably 131 and 163) there are marks from the 'rollers' at the press clearly present...much like you get on an inkjet printer when the rollers need cleaning. Sigh. Have to contact my supplier and ask for a replacement.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

John Riutta — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:10:44 GMT

Lee is right; I have a standing order with NHBS and they are always prompt. My copy, which had to travel all the way to the west coast of the US, arrived in my post box yesterday.

Cheers,
John

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Lee3764 — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:16:50 GMT

Try NHBS books in Totnes, Devon. They always ship on the dot or a day early on official publication date of each New Nat new edition so no delays & you can phone & speak to them about your order or standing order but you cannot do that with Amazon. They always have a pre- publication offer price too. £38.99 for "Books & Naturalists" instead of £50.00. Postage is usually £2.99.

Hope this is useful if you are fed up waiting for Amazon to deliver the goods & NHBS Books always guarantee a First Edition/First Printing of each N/N edition.

Lee.

RE: New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Fritillary — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:23:33 GMT

I would love to read it, but it still hasn't shipped from Amazon. I don't know what the delay is. Perhaps another low print run, but surely not?

New Naturalist No:112 'Books and Naturalists'

Lee3764 — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:04:16 GMT

I have just received my 1st edition copy today (6th February) and it looks very nice. I have only 'flicked' through it and it looks like a good read indeed. A lovely plate of Butterflies on page 72 from a book dating from 1741!! Fantastic plates on page 329 taken from a book/books 'Coloured Figures of the Birds of the British Isles' 1885-98. there were 421 paintings reproduced for this above publication on birds and I'm sure that would have been a cracking publication all those years ago!

It seems that this book will require the reader to sit down & read it rather than looking at the pictures like I have only done so far! Oh to be retired. So many hobbies/interests & too little time! I also quite like the Brown with Red 'NN' logos inside front & back covers. I don't think this has been a colour scheme on N/N's before?

Comments please anyone else?

Lee.