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RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Fri, 21 May 2010 08:46:17 GMT

Not really in the papers per se, but there's a Nikon advert 'Nikon has given me the ultimate EDG' for a new fieldscope in the bird press (whole rear page of Bird Watching June 2010 for instance) which has a large photo of Chris Packham holding his new digiscoping baby whilst (rather incongruously) looking at several reference books on a table in the garden. NN 60 British Birds of Prey and NN 87 Amphibians and Reptiles are clear for all to see...

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

John Beal — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:24:23 GMT

To revert to the original "In the papers" heading of this string, has any of you seen the article about the New Naturalists printed in the Daily Telegraph on Sat 17 October on page W17 ? I have been unable to access this and the DT's customer services dept do not reply to my emails. Could someone post it on this forum? It referred in particular to the publication of Art of the NNs.

John B

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:32:30 GMT

Nothing to do with New Naturalists at all, but a great article nonetheless. Margaret Atwood on why birds matter....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jan/09/margaret-atwood-birds-review

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:26:39 GMT

[quote]It can be quite satisfying not having some of them. Some of those I got rid of I got tired of seeing on my book shelves. Displaying jewels is a very personal thing.

John B[/quote]

This made me smile out loud (I've just decided that's possible). I love the sentiment.

I'm not entirely sure my ridiculous collector's mentality (mother, we really should have discussed my potty training) allows me to agree with it....but, deep down, I know you're spot on, John.

Thank you.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

John Beal — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:36:44 GMT

And a prosperous and fulfilling New Decade to you too Lee, hopefully in the New Naturalist field too.

Building up your collection should be relaxing, not stressful. Just try for the ones which you're most interested in and are financially accessible. Otherwise it can become an obsession. When I started out, I didn't regard it as a "must have" series and couldn't have afforded even the limited number of titles coming out in the fifties. So I appreciate your dilemma.

The sixties output didn't appeal, and in any case I had to concentrate on completing my education. Fortunately, there were only three seventies volumes which attracted me - Man and Birds, Finches and Hedges, which I got in exchange for Inheritance. Like you, I had two small children by that time and one's priorities change. I did later buy Thrushes, Tits, Farming and Wildlife, Mammals in the British Isles and Waders, all of which I later sold or swapped after I'd read them.

The same went for the Bloomsbury editions of Birds of Prey, Woodland Birds and Butterflies, which I appreciated reading despite their lack of colour illustrations. My earlier posts tell of my early 90's acquisitions (or lack of them!). Then in 1995 came Peter Marren's landmark volume, The New Naturalists.

From there on, Collins ought to have realised what a free boost he had given them, but the later 90s' output was meagre and included titles with a relatively limited appeal such as Pollination and Plant Diseases. The only one I bought was Ireland having just been working there.

It was not until the year 2000 that the rejuvenation of the series finally took off with the publication of the excellent Lichens and Amphibians and Reptiles. From then on there have been at least two titles a year.

I have been buying a selection of NNs for almost 60 years. You don't need to acquire every title. It can be quite satisfying not having some of them. Some of those I got rid of I got tired of seeing on my book shelves. Displaying jewels is a very personal thing.

John B

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Lee3764 — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:39:14 GMT

All this talk about titles that are way out of my league (Ferns & Freshwater Fish) makes me drool when these titles could be obtained for an amount of money that was less than a days take home pay, whereas now they fetch approx £900 for a top quality unfaded copy it is heading more towards a months take home pay!! I obviously came onto the collecting scene far too blinking late to be able to afford these editions. One day hopefully I'll be able to afford a few of these editions but I will have to wait for my two young sons (aged 4 & 6) to grow up as my money will have to be spent on them at present! I can but hope of course that I find another bargain like my very good copy with unfaded D/J of 'The Soil' N/N no:77 that cost me only £24.99 last Summer!

I do like these 'Bargain' stories so keep them coming please! Most of us must have a story or two??

Happy New Year............Lee.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

John Beal — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:08:28 GMT

[quote][b]Jackbus (02/01/2010)[/b][hr]Wow. that's a great story. Congratulations. That has to be the best bargain I have read about on here. We should proably have a seperate thread for all these stories.[/quote]

Thanks Jackbus. On reflection, what I find remarkable is that the title I actually did get "Freshwater Fish" was still available from Collins in hardback three years after publication and when the run was only 1,500 copies. I had sold my paperback copy to a fisheries colleague and decided to treat myself to an upgrade. One must however bear in mind that this was pre-Marren (pM).

John B

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

John Beal — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:45:34 GMT

Yes Hengus, these two alternatives were used by Private Eye, maybe even in the '60s as I seem to remember that was when The Guardian's infamous susceptibility to misprints was at its most virulent. The joke being that when they printed a correction it could well be a misprint too.

We too are suffering your kind of temperatures.

John B

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:28:41 GMT

[quote][b]John Beal (02/01/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Hengus (12/12/2009)[/b][hr]And all the 2009 NN titles get a mention in the Grauniad round up today...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/dec/12/natural-history-wildlife-books

[/quote]

Shouldn't this be "Grundian"?

JB[/quote]

The (no longer, if truth be told) spelling mistake obsessed Guardian has always been the Grauniad as far as I know...isn't that what Private Eye christened it in the 70s?

Having said that I'm probably missing a very obvious joke of yours here, aren't I?! If so, my excuse is it's too cold to think in Denbighshire.... -9 degrees here, and temps of -11 in Corwen ;-)

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Jackbus — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:04:09 GMT

Wow. that's a great story. Congratulations. That has to be the best bargain I have read about on here. We should proably have a seperate thread for all these stories.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Fritillary — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:50:27 GMT

Ebay, it was not listed in thr usual way, and I took a punt!

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

John Beal — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:28:57 GMT

[quote][b]Hengus (12/12/2009)[/b][hr]And all the 2009 NN titles get a mention in the Grauniad round up today...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/dec/12/natural-history-wildlife-books

[/quote]

Shouldn't this be "Grundian"?

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

John Beal — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:15:13 GMT

Quite! And I wasn't sure that I was sufficiently interested in ferns to buy this book, on special offer new from a reputable natural history bookshop.

A little later (1995) Collins had several of the now highly sought-after titles listed together in a flier. They had obviously quite a few left unsold. I decided I might as well buy four.

Apart from from Freshwater Fishes, they were not titles which had tempted me when first published - it was the listing of them together which eventually attracted me. Off went my cheque and order to Collins Glasgow wharehouse. Back came three books on trendy American management techniques! (I did however receive Fishes). I eventually got my money back, but did not dare re-order. This experience put me off Harper Collins for a long time and I had the impression that with the extremely intermittent publication of new NN titles there was not much interest in the series.

The big gaps in publication and the complete lack of contact with other NN buyers meant my interest dwindled. I had in any case only bought those books I was actively interested in. Lack of funds meant I had to be extremely selective right from the start with my first schoolboy purchases/presents, beginning in the early fifties.

John B

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Lee3764 — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:18:40 GMT

[quote][b]John Beal (01/01/2010)[/b][hr]How about Ferns remaindered for a fiver in the mid-nineties?

John B[/quote]

Blimey!!!!!!!!!

£5........That's daft!!!!

Lee.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

John Beal — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:37:20 GMT

How about Ferns remaindered for a fiver in the mid-nineties?

John B

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Lee3764 — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:23:23 GMT

[quote][b]michael5 (29/12/2009)[/b][hr]Having now finished a full set of the main series and also the monographs, i have had many bargain buys maybe being at the right place at the right time. but one that i always remember so very well is the day i found in a local bookshop near me ,a 1st ed. 1960 Dragonflies ..in very fine/fine condition book with wrapper, unfoxed , bright almost like new. and the price??? £3.50pence!!!! any one better that?[/quote]

Ha Ha Ha.......That's almost as cheap as when it was published! It was 42 shillings originally I believe in 1960 (49 years ago) which is £2.10 in modern decimal currency unless I'm very much mistaken!

Well done Michael.

Lee.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

michael5 — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:09:18 GMT

Having now finished a full set of the main series and also the monographs, i have had many bargain buys maybe being at the right place at the right time. but one that i always remember so very well is the day i found in a local bookshop near me ,a 1st ed. 1960 Dragonflies ..in very fine/fine condition book with wrapper, unfoxed , bright almost like new. and the price??? £3.50pence!!!! any one better that?

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:12:01 GMT

[quote][b]Fritillary (21/12/2009)[/b][hr]Well, I found a copy of Ferns, Collins First Edition with an unfaded spine for under £50.00 the other day, not mint but very good. [/quote]

Luverley Jubberley...congratulations ;-)

Surely not from a professional bookseller? Pray tell (although I quite understand if you don't tell us precisely where!)...

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Lee3764 — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:48:33 GMT

[quote][b]Fritillary (21/12/2009)[/b][hr]Well, I found a copy of Ferns, Collins First Edition with an unfaded spine for under £50.00 the other day, not mint but very good. This makes up for all the books purchased in good faith, but with inaccurate descriptions noted upon receipt. It's a bit of a gamble sometimes. Some dealers/seller apologise and make amends, some don't give a damn.

Happy hunting.

If anyone has a vg/mint first edition copy of Natural History of Pollintation for sale, I would be interested!![/quote]

Great find! Errrr.....don't suppose they had another copy at that price?

I created a new thread last week for 'Sales & Wants' on this section. It maybe worth your while posting your wants/sales/exchanges on there? Best of luck anyway.

Lee.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Fritillary — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:07:03 GMT

Well, I found a copy of Ferns, Collins First Edition with an unfaded spine for under £50.00 the other day, not mint but very good. This makes up for all the books purchased in good faith, but with inaccurate descriptions noted upon receipt. It's a bit of a gamble sometimes. Some dealers/seller apologise and make amends, some don't give a damn.

Happy hunting.

If anyone has a vg/mint first edition copy of Natural History of Pollintation for sale, I would be interested!!

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Jackbus — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:34:54 GMT

I once met a guy at a book fair who claimed to have collected the entire series and monographs in lovely condition without ever spending more than £10 on any individual book! I took this with a pinch of salt but he was absolutely adamant about it. Pretty impressive stuff. Now that really is a challenge: collecting the entire NN series on a self imposed budget like that.

I caught the NN bug after my wonderful eccentric friend and neighbour showed me his own collection, up to number 50, all in beautiful condition, in a glass cabinet. He had several notable book series collections but the aesthetically stunning NNs really impressed me.

My own biggest collecting bargain was probably a lovely copy of Sea Birds, which I paid about £30 for, but was in really lovely condition. But that hardly constitutes an amazing bargain. In all the years trailing round charity shops, hoping for the wonderful discovery, I have never found a NN book in nice condition! Plenty of foxed , ex-library Mountain & Moorland s and British Mammals type stuff but nothing more interesting. I have heard another anecdote about someone passing a charity shop (closed) on a Sunday afternoon, to see an entire run of Mint Gillmor's (it was 71-82) in the front window!! They came back on the Monday to find they had all been sold for a song! Again, I do take that with a pinch of salt because surely they would have camped out for them!!

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Lee3764 — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:12:11 GMT

I must admit Jackbus I have noticed the odd slightly off comment/reply in the past on this forum. It should be for all 1698 members benefit to support each other for the benefit of everyones enjoyment of the New Naturalist books and their content. If 10% of members left just one comment in the next month it would boost the number of total postings on here by almost 70%!!! Also there would be a lot more to read about and discuss!

Lee.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Jackbus — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:11:21 GMT

[quote][b]Hengus (14/12/2009)[/b][hr][quote][b]Jackbus (14/12/2009)[/b][hr]As someone who has tried to start fairly open ended threads on here about collecting the NNs, I am surprised by the fact that while there are many people registered, there are very few repeat posters. Discussions on here do have a tendency to degenerate quickly and prompt really quite dismissive,bordering on ruderesponses from one or two resident posters. I have no idea why there is that slightly unfriendly tone, you don't tend to see it in other forums, but then this is the only book collecting forum I have joined,. I hope to continue to try and join the discussions and prompt some great New Naturalist collecting anecdotes from the huge body of knowledge that people will have on here. But if we could please make the tone friendlier. I really don't think the lack of participation has anything to do with Collins.[/quote]

The issue with 'tone' is a chicken and egg one....if only a few people write messages then the tone is disproportionately theirs. I know you got upset by something I wrote, but I don't actually think the tone is unfriendly on here at all...the short sharp written word is often very easy to misinterpret. One thinks someone is unfriendly and then one starts to read everything of theirs as unfriendly....it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Surely what's really 'unfriendly' is that nobody uses it....until a couple of days ago there was 10 days without a single posting! With the number of registered users there really 'should' be tens of messages every day and a couple of new threads added every day or two. I know forums with a tenth of the membership which have 10 times the number of messages as this.[/quote]

Sorry Hengus, but it was more of an observation of responses to several posters on here. A sharp written word doesn't bother me. I have been relatively active on here anyway. It was more an attempt to explain the lack of postings from a large body of registered users. If we just adopted a friendlier, more helpful tone, it may work wonders. We should try it sometime.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Lee3764 — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:51:06 GMT

OK.........I have tried to get some discussion going back in late November especially about my 'bargain' N/N no:77 'The Soil' that I purchased for £24.99 in hardback with unfaded D/J a few months ago but I did not get the response that I hoped for! I hoped that several other members would come up with some stories of their own 'bargain' finds to hopefully inspire the majority of us less well off enthusiasts to find those utter bargains that appear all too infrequently! It was meant to inspire some people to get & look for a valuable book for a few quid OR come up with any possible pitfalls that there may be whilst undertaking this task (such as misdescribed books)!

Come on..........with 1600+ members there must surely be at least 20 of you who have a story about this sort of find that you wish to share?

Look forward to all your replies..........Lee.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:12:06 GMT

[quote][b]Jackbus (14/12/2009)[/b][hr]As someone who has tried to start fairly open ended threads on here about collecting the NNs, I am surprised by the fact that while there are many people registered, there are very few repeat posters. Discussions on heredo have a tendencyto degenerate quicklyand promptreally quite dismissive,bordering on ruderesponses fromone or tworesident posters. I have no idea why there is that slightly unfriendly tone, you don't tend to see it in other forums, but then this is the only book collecting forum I have joined,. I hope to continue to try and join the discussions and prompt some great New Naturalist collecting anecdotes from the huge body of knowledge that people will have on here. But if we could please make the tone friendlier. I really don't think the lack of participation has anything to do with Collins.[/quote]

The issue with 'tone' is a chicken and egg one....if only a few people write messages then the tone is disproportionately theirs. I know you got upset by something I wrote, but I don't actually think the tone is unfriendly on here at all...the short sharp written word is often very easy to misinterpret. One thinks someone is unfriendly and then one starts to read everything of theirs as unfriendly....it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Surely what's really 'unfriendly' is that nobody uses it....until a couple of days ago there was 10 days without a single posting! With the number of registered users there really 'should' be tens of messages every day and a couple of new threads added every day or two. I know forums with a tenth of the membership which have 10 times the number of messages as this.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Jackbus — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:25:55 GMT

As someone who has tried to start fairly open ended threads on here about collecting the NNs, I am surprised by the fact that while there are many people registered, there are very few repeat posters. Discussions on here do have a tendency to degenerate quickly and prompt really quite dismissive, bordering on rude responses from one or two resident posters. I have no idea why there is that slightly unfriendly tone, you don't tend to see it in other forums, but then this is the only book collecting forum I have joined,. I hope to continue to try and join the discussions and prompt some great New Naturalist collecting anecdotes from the huge body of knowledge that people will have on here. But if we could please make the tone friendlier. I really don't think the lack of participation has anything to do with Collins.

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:54:45 GMT

[quote][b]michael5 (13/12/2009)[/b][hr]Hi..first of all , a happy and peacefull christmas to all . secondly I would like to say that i totaly agree that the situation of members not writing in this forum has been jointly caused by members and collins alike.

I firmly believe that members have lost interest because of several things thatare pointless to dwell on because some others will obviously disagree with me here and i'm not here to raise an argument. This site is for the enjoyment and hopefully to further knowledge for many of us collector/naturalists here. I have been a member of this site from early days and have always been grateful to Collins for it, so what i am going to say i hope Alex and others from Collins will understand i hope, but i feel it has resulted in some lack of interest here.

It is my firm belief that many have lostsome trust in Collins over the leather saga. some were as "Sold out" then magicaly reappeared ! leading to the question of exactly how many were printed. "Dragonflies" being the most notorious case. Collins stated that the remander unsold copys after a short period would be NEVER sold and kept by them , When the continuation to bring a "Leather" out on every new title was decided..hey presto! like magic they appear and so do others that were "sold out" previously. Several and isay clearly here..several members asked Collins... what is going on? and there has NEVER as far as i am aware been an answer from them to this question. Because of this i know personaly of several collectors that as they put it "cant be bothered to post anything or ask anything in here", so hence only come here now and then. I hope by saying this i have not upset anyone ,thats not my intention, but it is an open forum and i'm saying what i feelis a factor which has contributed to lack of interest. micky[/quote]

There's more than an element of truth in this. It has certainly left a VERY bad taste in the mouth of a lot of people, something which the publishers bizarrely seem entirely ambivalent about. When it comes down to it, nobody likes to be lied to. And we were. Brazenly.

Having said that, there is far more to the lack of involvement here. I can't put my finger on it, but for whatever reason people really do not want to get involved. If you look at the number of members, in relation to the number of postings, you can see what I mean. Perhaps the real truth of the matter is that this (the New Naturalist community) is actually a lot lot smaller bubble than some of us believed it to be. But if I was a publisher, I would want to nurture and encourage that community...both directly through sales, and indirectly by keeping the brand alive and refreshed. That includes supporting the 'collecting' side of things too. Imho, they aren't doing that well at all. But ultimately you can't force people to come out of lurking mode and put 'pen to paper'. That's why (again, if I was the publisher) I'd be putting new topics up here regularly, and answering queries on a daily basis, and not simply using it as a means of advertising your latest special offer. Taking us for granted? Some might say that. Me? I couldn't possibly comment ;-)

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

michael5 — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:10:12 GMT

Hi..first of all , a happy and peacefull christmas to all . secondly I would like to say that i totaly agree that the situation of members not writing in this forum has been jointly caused by members and collins alike.

I firmly believe that members have lost interest because of several things that are pointless to dwell on because some others will obviously disagree with me here and i'm not here to raise an argument. This site is for the enjoyment and hopefully to further knowledge for many of us collector/naturalists here. I have been a member of this site from early days and have always been grateful to Collins for it, so what i am going to say i hope Alex and others from Collins will understand i hope, but i feel it has resulted in some lack of interest here.

It is my firm belief that many have lost some trust in Collins over the leather saga. some were as "Sold out" then magicaly reappeared ! leading to the question of exactly how many were printed. "Dragonflies" being the most notorious case. Collins stated that the remander unsold copys after a short period would be NEVER sold and kept by them , When the continuation to bring a "Leather" out on every new title was decided..hey presto! like magic they appear and so do others that were "sold out" previously. Several and i say clearly here..several members asked Collins... what is going on? and there has NEVER as far as i am aware been an answer from them to this question. Because of this i know personaly of several collectors that as they put it "cant be bothered to post anything or ask anything in here", so hence only come here now and then. I hope by saying this i have not upset anyone ,thats not my intention, but it is an open forum and i'm saying what i feel is a factor which has contributed to lack of interest. micky

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:16:19 GMT

And all the 2009 NN titles get a mention in the Grauniad round up today...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/dec/12/natural-history-wildlife-books

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Bill — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:39:48 GMT

[quote][b]Hengus (11/12/2009)[/b][hr]Does a Forum where there isn't a posting for 10 days actually exist? Hmmm, don't know, but it is a sad sort of place. Don't understand why this forum isn't better used.[/quote]

Like you, I was rather surprised at the TOTAL lack of postings to this Forum over the last 2 weeks.

I'm sure there's no lack of interest in the NN series and there will be many members who choose to read the posts but are quite happy to remain as "lurkers" - I've no issue with that, it's true of practically every on-line Forum. If you click on the link titled "Members" at the top right, you can see that there are more than 1,600 members of the Forum and many have accessed the site in the last 2 or 3 days.

Perhaps one reason for the declining interest is that HarperCollins, or rather those with the responsibility to manage the forum, seem to have lost interest themselves - they last logged in on 1st December and have only posted twice since 28th October ... and then only to outline the publishing schedule for next year.

I accept that the role of administrator is not to populate the forum with new messages and threads, but so many of the questions that have been addressed to them have been ignorred. For example, as far as I am aware, they never responded on the availability of extra POD dustkjackets for those who have requested them, whether the Monographs would be available as PODs, whether the heavily discounted leather Dragonflies on eBay some weeks ago were genuine, etc.

OK, this is not intended to be an angry rant against HC - after all, they had the initiative to establish the site and Forum in the first place - but in my opinion, if this forum is to prosper then we need an active engagement from HarperCollins.

Taking this opportunity to wish all members a very Happy Christmas - after all, I doubt there'll be any other posts to reply to!

Bill

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:40:41 GMT

(Philosophical conundrum in the same vein as does a tree that falls in a wood that nobody hears actually make a noise...does a Forum where there isn't a posting for 10 days actually exist? Hmmm, don't know, but it is a sad sort of place. Don't understand why this forum isn't better used. Still....)

Anyway, not really NN in the papers but Peter Marren summing up the year's best books in Nature and Environment in today's Indy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/best-nature-and-environment-books-for-christmas-1837713.html

He's spot on about The Running Sky, although ends up somewhat underselling it to my mind. Head and shoulders above any other book I've read this year.... Andrew Motion's book of the year in the Grauniad as well I think....

RE: New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Brendan — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:24:00 GMT

Also, for those that missed it the first time, it's probably worth adding this link to a feature article on NN by Richard Mabey, from the guardian in March this year.

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/mar/14/new-naturalist-books-richard-mabey][/url]

New Naturalist 'in the papers'

Hengus — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:02:29 GMT

Nice article in today's Independent (mainly about the Collector's Club Symposium which took place yesterday)

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/michael-mccarthy-going-cuckoo-over-new-nats-books-1801806.html